“Medical” Marijuana
Dr. Paul Gorsuch asked me whether I think that “enforcing the law as it exists would have any impact on the legitimization and proliferation of recreational use under the guise of ‘medical need?’” (By the way, there is some very good discussion about the science of medical marijuana courtesy of the same Dr. Gorsuch.)
The answer to his question is “yes,” I do.
The law I am referring to is MCA 50-46-201, which provides: “A qualifying patient and that qualifying patient’s caregiver may not possess more than six marijuana plants and 1 ounce of usable marijuana each.”
Caregivers interpret this to mean that, for each patient they sign up, they are entitled to possess 6 plants and an ounce. Fully cognizant of the fact that I sound like a broken record, I disagree and do not think that is what the statute says.
Even assuming that is what it means, though, it creates some difficult accounting.
Let’s assume a caregiver has 100 patients. Therefore, he has 100 ounces of pot, and 600 marijuana plants. Some have said a well-grown plant can produce 16 ounces, we’ll be conservative and say each plant produces 10 ounces. Let’s say the caregiver staggers his plant production so that an equal number of plants are ready for harvest each month. Therefore, he is producing 500 ounces of pot each month, or 5 ounces per patient per month.
Does one person consume 5 ounces a month?
If we assume his plants produce 16 ounces each, he’s producing 8 ounces per patient, per month. I’m not an expert, but I think that’s a lot of pot. If normal purchase of marijuana on the ’street’ is 1/8 of an ounce, these patients are purchasing and presumably consuming 64 eighths of an ounce each month.
What, too, about the cost? If the caregiver sells his pot for $150.00 a month, that means his patients are spending between $750.00 and $1,200.00 per month on marijuana, or between $900.00 and $14,400.00 per year.
Some folks in law enforcement think that there is a very real possibility that some of this pot is finding its way outside of the ‘official’ trade. With numbers like these, that is not a wholly incredible suspicion.
What if, instead of passing emergency zoning ordinances, the City of Great Falls simply interpreted the statute to mean what it says. Walk into a caregiver’s facility, and make him or her put up or shut up. The caregiver had better be able to account for every last ounce, under either interpretation. If a caregiver had 100 patients and 600 plants, and if we assume my interpretation of the quantity limitations is upheld by the Courts, that caregiver would be guilty of a very serious felony charge.
Obviously, I cannot speak for every voter. I voted to make medical marijuana legal. The Act was not presented, though, as a means to establish huge marijuana grow operations with virtually no accountability.
I think that if we are going to legalize pot, we should just legalize it. I think a certain percentage of the patients are frauds. The fact is, though, that the law contains language and it should be enforced. We don’t need more laws. Let’s work with the ones we have.
“I voted to make medical marijuana legal.” — Mr. Gregg Smith
Too bad you didn’t know something about medical science before you voted.
Yes I agree with this a well-grown plant can produce 16 ounces, so that it will be helpful for more number of patients. yes if we are going to legalize pot, we should just legalize it.
Just think – if we legalized pot, we’d have to release tens of thousands of minority prisoners from their holding pens. But it would eliminate the need for your tedious math. Cigarettes kill 400,000 a year, pot none. At what point in time in this debate do you finally see the meaning of “absurd”?
Let’s see if I can wrap my mind around your logic. The only prisoners in holding pens with drug convictions are minorities. Or, we’re so racist that the only ones we care about are the ones that are minorities? I thought this was post racial America and calling concerned citizens “racist” was nothing more than a lame attempt at quashing ligitimate debate.
From the American Cancer Society…. “Marijuana contains more tar than (tobacco) cigarettes. Marijuana is also inhaled very deeply and the smoke is held in the lungs for a long time….Many of the cancer-causing substances in tobacco are also found in marijuana. And because marijuana is an illegal substance, it is not possible to control what other substances it might contain.”
We should also mentioned the accidental deaths directly tied to marijuana use, but I’m sure you already calculated that into your figure.
As to absurdity, that would be this argument of yours. Come back when you have something more educated to say.
“I think that if we are going to legalize pot, we should just legalize it.”
I didn’t think that was so hard to understand. I guess it is for some.
If major employers require a drug screen, and marijuana is on the list what happens? Do prospective employees ever bother to consider this?
I tend to agree with your interpretation of this law. It is poorly written and leaves to much open to interpretation which will cause a good deal of trouble and confusion down the line! Clear language in this is a must before the doors of any business are open in town. This protects the business owner as well as the public and keeps all on firm ground as to what can and can not be done by all involved in it’s day to day operation
DPHHS
Has a Q&A on their website.
Has 5 Administrative rules.
The 2009 legislature addressed Medical Marijuana.
One of the proposals that tied in committee was to ALLOW inspection of grow operations and said opperations could then grow more than 6 plants per patient.
I don’t have time now to write more but am considering making myself available at some sort of public meeting to answer questions about my vote opposing the ORD. If any body was interested.
From DPHHS Website:
14. How much medical marijuana can I possess?
A qualifying patient and a qualifying patient’s caregiver may each possess up to six marijuana plants and up to one ounce of usable marijuana. “Usable marijuana” means the dried leaves and flowers of marijuana and any mixture or preparation of marijuana. This would include hashish, tinctures or food products.
Commissioner? Jolley Sounds interesting, but not sure what “ORD” stands for. Would you illuminate please. Second thought – are you referring to the ordinance of Tuesday night’s meeting? If so, would be very interested in listening to your reasoning.
olredtk : My reading indicates that marijuana does not cause lung cancer. I’ve seen studies to that effect, but heck, if it does, merely take it in brownie form.
Also, most drug offenders are white, but those in prison for drug offenses are heavily black, with that race approaching 50% of our prison population. It is like this: If you are a racial minority and want to smoke a joint, watch yer back. If you’re white, you can probably do it on your front porch and none will care.
Dr. Gorsuch
I will respond probably tomorrow. I’m off again in a few minutes.
And yes I was referring to Tuesday night’s Ordinance.
Mary — I’m sure you’ll be welcome to a guest post on our new platform to explain your vote. I hear a lot of praise for Commissioner Jolley these days
Greg, Thanks for your response. For you and others – what if the current medical marijuana law is not enforceable? There are currently 136 “caregivers” in cascade county. Do the city and county really have the resources to ride herd on that many (sure to be more)? How frequently would they have to inspect, scheduled or unscheduled inspections, what if extra plants are harvested and given to dealers (not caregivers) weekly, how does one account for the numbers needed to keep a steady supply to the registered users, and so on? Like you I have no objection to “medical marijuana”, but do not believe that is what we are seeing. It appears that a few physicians are prescribing mass sham cards. I hear weekly descriptions of such from my patients who have gotten their cards and openly tell me things like “it’s a sham, 20 years old with hangnails are lying and getting their cards, you just pay your money and get your card, the doc spent 3 minutes with me, they get it for their friends, they sell it to the high schoolers” and so on. Then there are the “accounting” issues as you put it. So it appears we have no limits on prescriptions or suppliers, but we do have limits on monitoring – can anyone doubt the outcome. Is it then unreasonable for the city to require land use to comply with local, state, and federal law effectively prohibiting storefront business in the city. I would be interested in others thoughts. Would “driving it underground” really be worse? Why and what evidence? Is that all we are seeing now, i.e. what was hidden is coming into the open or are we seeing a proliferation? If a head shop opens next to Dragonfly how will you respond when your 17 year old daughter wants to hang out with friends at 5th street diner and Dragonfly on Friday night? Thoughts any and all?
In response to Mr. Gorsuch last question….a head shop and a dispensery are two different things, however, each require proof of age (18 and older) and a dispensery also requires one to have a medical card. And Friday night? This is Great Falls, we roll up the sidewalks at 6pm unless its a bar or restaurant.
The one dispensery I HAVE been in was set up just like a Dr.s office, with a large cushy couch, a large board listing available strains, a few posters listing the various OTHER benefits of hemp, and some magazines. Patients are directed to another office to purchase thier medicine, and walk out with an unmarked brown paper sack. No giant tie dyed tapestries, no paraphernalia, no sitars, no black lights…in other words, nothing to burn my poor innocent 17 year olds eyes and brain.
Hopefully I have been able to counteract our schools DARE propaganda with good honest education and my 17 year old understands the risks and benefits of this somewhat legal plant. She might take the opportunity to explain to her friends the idea of patients rights!
Patient’s rights, now there’s a novel concept, maybe Dr. Gorsuch needs to find out what patients rights are. Doctors do make mistakes, just ask the Board of Medical Examiners. Unfortunately, our society puts doctors above others because of their education, but the bottom line is this: we pay the bills, we should get to decide whats best for us. When Dr. Gorsuch starts paying my medical bills, then maybe he should have a say, but when it costs $500.00 just to walk into his office, he should realize he is sticking his neck out. I have no godlike illusions about doctors, I know they don’t know everything.
Im new to this sort of forum and not certain of the etiquette…what constitutes a rant?
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At any rate, as far as land use, what is the law concerning ANY agricultural use inside city limits? There must be some regulation because I cant think of any nurseries right inside town…they seem to be all on the outskirts (tilleras, forde, bundi and flower farm) but perhaps thats just a space issue?
Of course grow operations should be monitored else what use the law? However….how can you legislate an individual patients needs? I can go thru 1/8th a day on a bad week, which is more than some and less than others and can also depend on the method of injestion ( eating, smoking, vaporizing…). How can you legislate the individuals personal situation? I have teen age sons in a single-wide trailer…where am I supposed to grow my 6 plants? How is the patient with bus transportaion supposed to get to the outskirts of town? Is my Caregiver supposed to grow every different strain until I find the one that works best for my pain? Or is it reasonable to have a place where I can try different strains before growing them?
Concerning growing and yields…an OUTDOOR plant can produce up to 2 lbs, indoor grows seem to be measured by the square foot…but I think it translates to up to 2.5oz per plant. ok. now im harvested and already illegal with just ONE plant and what farmer in thier right mind plants ONE plant? Suppose something goes awry? What am I supposed to do with the extra? How do I procure in between harvests?
I think it COULD be monitored very easily…charge an additional fee at the time of registration to help cover the costs of inspection…the medical strains are standardised enough that yeild per plant can be calculated fairly easily. Co-ops could be created where Caregivers could bank any extra thier plants produced and purchase for thier patients during the inevitable dry spells.
The law as it stands is nebulous at best and unreasonably restrictive at worst but at this point Im just glad its there
I have been living with chronic back and neck pain, migraines, degenerative disc disease, muscle spasms, and sleep disorders cause I can’t lay in the bed for more than 4 hours in one position. I have been in this situation since my disability from an on the job injury in 1998. My pain management for the day consists of 180 mgs. of morphine sulfate for pain, 10mgs. of Nortriptyline for spasams and sleep, Maxalt for my headaches, Symbyax 6/50mgs for anxiety and depression, Flomax for urine retention, and senna-s to keep the stuff moving cause of all the prescription drugs. Medical Marijuana, along with accupuncture and massage therapy can and does help me reduce the morphine intake by half. It also helps me with my sleep disorder, spasms and migraines.
Some doctors in this area are afraid to prescribe medical marijuana because they fear reprecussion from the feds, AMA, and the locals. It is very hard to find a personal physician to sign off on an application and also be your primary healthcare doctor. It seems to me these clinics that co-op and see you once a year for the sign off is a just not par for the course and are in it for the money. We need more personal physicians to care for the patient, keep an eye on medications, followup on your problems, and ask how you are doing once in awhile. I know I sure could use one.
Medical Marijuana has helped me manage my pain levels and make life easier without making me so dependent on the narcotics. I just don’t like taking all the pills all the time, and they can’t be doing my liver and other things any good. Try taking Morphine for 12 years and see what happens when you miss a dose. I don’t go through withdrawals when I don’t have the medical marijuana, just my pain levels go way up.
I just want to see more MD’s in this area that are not afraid of the system and help people like me live a better life. I would like to thank the voters and the state for making medical marijuana legal, it does work whether you eat it or smoke it.
The substandard approach to the medical marijuana issue needs to be reined in by “hard standards”. There are substantial principles for providing chronic pain cares using controlled substances. These standards are the basis for medical discipline in the event of any misadventures, medical or legal. MT law enforcement has not gone forth on even outrageous prescribing problems, but the medical licensing board will discipline providers for poor care.
In the case of most but not all medical marijuana providers, the visits are limited to certification and re-certification!
This issue is unique in all of medical cares… just say yes, and all is well. While I do question the previous history of how marijuana got to be on the DEA Schedule I list, I also don’t think it is so safe that anybody or everybody can and should use it. To certify and then leave the matter in the hands of caregivers with no real medical training is a curious practice indeed.
Just in the matter of pain itself, there are easy to understand and train algorithms used, but I am still baffled by the logic of this. In fact, I can see several of us in the fields of pain/ addiction medicine asking for medical board clarification. Any arguments about free speech or “appropriate” medical care go out the window when comparing this practice to the usual standards of care.
Anonymous states:
…but when it costs $500.00 just to walk into his office, he should realize he is sticking his neck out…
To which I reply:
This is untrue. I know of no physician in Great Falls that charges $500 “just” to walk into his or her office.
When you choose to make an ad hominem attack as in your post, you have lost your argument.
Sal S: How could a physician help you manage your medications while using marijuana when there are no studies of its safety and efficacy, especially in combination with the medications you list? We understand and can measure the risks of prescription medications, even most interactions. You should also worry that marijuana might not be doing to your liver, lungs, or brain “any good”. And no one is afraid of the AMA. I hope you find relief.
Agreed on working with the laws we have. The less laws, the better.
Actually, the issue of marijuana safety has long been known. It is very safe in long-term use, if not smoked. Like most other lipid (fat-based) active ingredients coming from essentially a specialized fatty-acid base, it has a modest metabolic load on organs, and not much to talk about from an interaction profile. That is not a real concern with my patients. Rather, the issue of how it affects mental status and function. Combined with opioids/ alcohol/ other sedatives, it may make a person “as confused as a possum” or (maybe better for such an esteemed site) an independent on election day.
I think you could say that the interaction profiles with marijuana would be comparable to chocolate… almost no fear unless the person has an underlying metabolic abnormality. I can cite abundant references if you are interested.
I should maybe clarify the above comment by saying that individuals under active treatment for depression or bipolar disorder, using SSRI antidepressants, may be subject to mood swings with marijuana use.
Also, folks with thought disorders (schizophrenia) should never use marijuana, since it can certainly cause a deterioration in mental stability.
There are reports of excessive sedation with the use of sleeping pills also, but not toxic issues such as would be seen with alcohol plus sedatives.
One other big thing here is the issue of suppressed nausea and vomiting, resulting in drug or alcohol overose. This is an unintended consequence of marijuana’s decrease of senstitivity in the brain’s nausea/vomiting center that is a positive quality for those with cancer or being given chemotherapy… I have seen two cases of this with lethal consequences.