Tea Parties-Part II
The best I can tell so far is that the Tea Party…movement…had a pretty good turnout. Despite comparisons to the “Brooks Brothers Riot,” I think the efforts of some to marginalize these protests is quite misplaced.
While far from a scientific study, looking at the pictures of the Great Falls and Missoula Tea Parties, the crowd certainly does not strike me as particularly well-heeled. Could it be that messages of fiscal responsibility resonate with members of both parties?
Organizer Cindi Baker said the rally was less about dueling ideologies and more about giving people a chance to vent about government spending, President Barack Obama’s $787 billion stimulus package and the nation’s trillion-dollar debt. More than 200 people attended the rally.
“We’d like to send a message to everyone that we have $12 trillion in debt,” Baker said. “We can’t sustain this and remain a great country.”
* * *
Critics argued that the parties were fueled by conservative news pundits and viewed as a way for Republicans to reclaim political momentum. But attendees disagreed, saying the gathering has nothing to do with political affiliation.
“This is not a partisan thing. We’re talking about our futures here,” said Travis Manus, 38, of Great Falls.
Likewise, I think it is apparent that our elected officials miss the point (sidebar). We get it. Both parties share the responsibility for the current budget deficits and debt. I have a feeling that the right/left blame game might be fading in effectiveness, at least among the more moderate middle.
We get it.
It’s not me against the left, it’s us against Washington.
My favorite protest sign.
God only wants 10%.
Some should tell the Messiah.
1) This movement was not spontaneous. That’s a crock and you know it. The only spontaneous protest I have ever seen in my lifetime was when Coca Cola became New Coke in the 1980’s. That’s the kind of thing we gete really upset about.
These things take organizing and planning, and in the case of you guys, that planning is of the top-down variety – that is, you are manipulated from above. The best part of the manipulation has been how they convinced you it was your idea.
2) The people protesting are frustrated and powerless. I get that. But they don’t know what the hell they are talking about. National Debt? Less than $2 trillion in 1980, over $10 trillion now, virtually all of it run up by the very people the protesters voted for. This is lunacy – these people are about as politically astute as fifth graders.
3) There’s a larger purpose being served here … I’m not so adroit as to be able to sense the inner workings of the right wing leadership. It seems clumsy and stupid, but there is a reason for it. All I can figure at this time is that it’s an organizing tool, a way to inflame passions and keep people focused on the ‘correct’ enemies. I leave it to better minds than mind to make sense of this.
But this I know – you’re being manipulated. If I had a crystal ball, I would tell you what goal is.
How was I manipulated? No one called me. I didn’t get the memo.
Yes, you’re right. The only way people manipulate one another these days is by telephone and paper memo. No one communicated with you. You acted spontaneously. The amazing thing is how it all miraculously happened at once. I got religion now!
I just remembered on other truly spontaneous protest I have seen in my life besides New Coke: 2002, Venezuela, when Huga Chavez was overthrown by a US-backed coup d’état, there was a spontaneous uprising, the the coup itself was overthrown, and Chavez restored to power.
Ah – so when the moonbats turn out to protest Bush or war or WTO or G8, etc, it’s called “grassroots.”
When normal people do it, it’s because they are being manipulated.
Riiiiight…
Come on, Mark — no one is suggesting that each tea party organizer woke up one day and said, “Ah ha! I’m going to organize a protest!” Of COURSE there is communication and networking going on – but I have seen ZERO evidence of any manipulation or evil scheming by any party (left, right, or otherwise) in the tea party demonstrations.
Playboy reported on it, trace it back to the Koch family in Oklahoma. They ran it on their web site for a few days, and then without explanation, pulled it.
I suspect loss of advertising revenue was threatened.
Mark T: Using your definition neither of your examples were spontaneous either. Thousands of people just don’t show up at the same place and same time.
I find your definition illogical as it is not based on the reality of human nature.
I read an editorial that the Playboy piece was pulled because it was fiction. Just like the claim that this started with Rick Santelli.
His reference to a tea party was in response to tea parties that had already occured and others in planning stage.
“I have no doubt that there has been involvement of various right-wing groups with the tea parties. So what? Groups–often funded by God knows who–coordinate protests. The article implies that the people who participated were therefore insincere. I know some of the people who went to these things, and trust me, they hate taxes and government every bit as much as they claimed.”
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/03/did_playboy_just_disappear_an.php
I smell fear.
Using your definition neither of your examples were spontaneous either. Thousands of people just don’t show up at the same place and same time.
No – my examples were spontaneous in that they were truly grassroots – events caused a reaction. With Coke, it was loss of a beloved product, with Venezuela, loss of a beloved president. In both cases, people talked and discontent grew and then it spilled out into the streets. That’s spontaneity.
In this case, it was astroturfed. I know this to be true because the things that the protesters were upset about have been present in our economy for thirty years now. But only now did they see fit to rise up. That’s because they were manipulated.
I smell puppets.
I don’t know much about your beloved Chavez, but the Coke protests weren’t altogether grassroots. A little-known company named Pepsi played a pretty major part in driving journalistic response to Coke’s plans, and those news reports played a major role in driving public opinion.
On the whole, while I would say that a lot of the press for these tea parties was generated by conservative commentators, the genesis and organization were far more grassroots than your Coke example. As for spontaneous, well, you can’t plan something for a month and then call it spontaneous, so I suppose you’re right there.
Larry: don’t act like an idiot — you know damn well that military retirement pay is part of “deferred compensation” for actual WORK — military service. These protests are directed primarily at wasteful spending, massive borrowing, and government intrusion into everyday life.
And in case you hadn’t checked lately, I quit my civil service job several months ago and am now VERY happily and proudly employed in the private sector.
And the last time I checked, military service is one of the actual roles and responsbilities of the federal government. Bailing out and taking over corporations and expanding government power is NOT in the Constitution.
AJ – Playboy says that planning went back months. Haven’t seen comments by the authors, but I presume they stand by their findings. With my “beloved” (and democratically elected) Chavez, and Coke, there was an identifiable independent event that sparked the uprising. The protests happened over a period fo days without advance planning.
Pepsi having a hand is illogical, as Pepsi stood to gain from Coke’s colossal blunder by doing nothing.
Again, the events that supposed ’sparked’ these protest have been going on for thirty years, so thing just erupting even though there is no apparent change going on is illogical. It was astroturfed.
Is that the sum of it then, Mark? These gatherings were “astroturfed” and “manipulated” because you find the lack of a definitive, precipitating event?
This is freaking hilarious. “You are all being manipulated, I know it, I KNOW IT!!!” (stomps tiny foot several times). As proof, a Playboy article that was pulled because it had manipulated the facts. Too good to be true.
Not that Mark T. isn’t being manipulated. If anything, the fact that the Tea Party attendees aren’t being manipulated just reinforces his own awareness of his shallow thinking.
Loving every moment of it.
As to Mark’s Playboy source Mark, see the WSJ: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975867505519363.html
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The movement grew so fast that some bloggers at the Playboy Web site — apparently unaware that we’ve entered the 21st century — suggested that some secret organization must be behind all of this. But, in fact, today’s technology means you don’t need an organization, secret or otherwise, to get organized. After considerable ridicule, the claim was withdrawn, but that hasn’t stopped other media outlets from echoing it…
======================
Mark’s source about Playboy is from Open Left, I guess that is unimpeachable.
Means nothing, Craig. Rupert-owned WSJ is expected to back this movement, just as Rupert-owned Fox news promoted it. Have you checked with the authors? Didn’t think so.
You guys all took to the streets yesterday, 2009, to protest a trend that has been going on since 1980. There’s no clarity as to what you are protesting. Spending? Why now? Taxes? Haven’t been raised on anyone, lowered for most. But you’re angry. I can feel that. You didn’t think to be angry when Bush was in office, but thats only becuase you are mindless partisans.
The real intelligence is up above. Over the years, your leaders have known to keep you focused on things that your anger can be a potent force, and have redirected it at things like abortion and illegal immigrants, all the while hosing you with their policies. You’ve been manipulated – not just yesterday, but for years.
And any of you who think I don’t see the same thing in fluffy liberals, think again.
Mark, you write: “You didn’t think to be angry when Bush was in office, but thats only becuase you are mindless partisans. ”
Your pejorative bigotry is showing again. I can only speak from my self but I wrote a lengthy letter to Bush asking him to resign. That’s how upset I was. The only thing I received was a deluge of crap from the RNC. I wrote back to them and told them to stick it as they had squandered their mandate and were sending up into serious debt.
Is that angry enough for you?
Why didn’t you take to the streets?
s/b “us” not “up.”
So Mark, your objection is not to what was being protested, but the timing? Even assuming you had a clue, at least better late than never, no?
Robert L. Johnson is pretty much spot on in his article Tea Parties Are Missing the Point:
“Unlike the conservatives today, the Sons of Liberty did not first purchase the tea from the British East India Company, they stole it and then destroyed it. They were real revolutionaries, not pretend revolutionaries.
I suppose pretending to do something makes these frustrated voters feel better about themselves. Kind of like kids who dress up like cowboys or soldiers, these “tax protestors” feel a kind of kinship with the real revolutionaries that they are pretending to be. Maybe that’s why George W. dressed up like a fighter pilot when he prematurely announced “Mission Accomplished.” (As can be deduced from the five US soldiers who were killed last week in Iraq , along with an increase in bombings, the mission is still not accomplished.)
Most of their anger is directed towards Obama in spite of the fact that the Republican George W. was president when the first real signs that the Greater Depression was engulfing us and the first bailout plan was implemented. I guess when you’re pretending, facts really don’t matter much.
This conservative group of voters doesn’t appear to have an inkling of what a revolt or a revolution requires. Their real mindset is more along the lines of “vote the bums out” and then vote in new bums! There is no room in that type of thinking for meaningful revolutionary ideas.”
You mean like the unemployed libruls?
Oh, and by the way, I think that you need to get back to your Soros backed handlers to get some new material. This isn’t working for you.
The Left desperately wants to talk about is everything BUT the central message of the protests. They denigrate the protests as astrotufing because that is the way they do it every time and they can’t imagine people of like mind getting together without centralized planning.
http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm
Mark’s constant overuse of rule 5 has violated rule 7 and he has yet to observe rule 11
Steve: Better late than never? Are you even in this conversation? Take a powder, head back to Rabid Sanity, put up another one of your insightful posts.
Mxyzptlk: Did you read what came bfore? There was no “central message” to the protests. It was just the leadership of the far right channeling anger, manipulating people with fifth grade mental states. If you were upset about spending, you woudl have protested years ago. If you upset about taxes, they ahve not changed since the early 2000’s, and this year went down slightly for most of us.
Clueless, it is. Clueless.
Me thinks you doth protest too much, Mark T. Otherwise, this whole “right-wing extremist” protest would have been a non-issue to people like you. You know, kind of how a lot of us feel when lefties protest on everyday that ends in ‘Y’.
I’ve have chided many a liberal on the futility of protesting. It’s a demonstration of weakness, and the media always focuses on the weirdest. I didn’t see that yesterday – haven’t see it all, but our Bozeman paper give them a huge front page picture and nothing about the whackos.
But this started out as funny, as you were so obviously being manipulated, adn then grew to a larger exchange. I’m done now.
The idea for the Great Falls Tax Day Tea Party grew out of the National Movement. We all agreed that this needed to remain non-partisan. By doing that it allows everyone to participate in the protest. And we certainly had people from all political persuasions there.
We wanted people to show to our leaders at all levels of government that we are tired of being forgotten after the elections are done. We wanted to also demonstrate that the silent majority was no longer willing to remain silent.
It has become a fad of late to say “Where were you when George Bush did…” We were right where we are now. We were not happy that our Governor was sending out rebate checks. We were not happy when our Federal Government sent out rebate checks. We were not happy when George Bush issued the TARP.
The “Where were you when..” is just a lame strawman argument.
To further state that our income taxes are the lowest ever is true. If the only tax you paid was income tax life would be grand. However, you can not buy a single item anywhere that has not been taxed.
When a company does its budget planning, they set out what they expect to make in profits after taxes and all overhead. They use that to set the price of their goods. You, as a consumer, pay those taxes.
The Tea Party Movement is not just about Taxes…it is far deeper than that.
Thanks
Thank you.
Which is to say that you don’t agree with the duly elected government of the US. Cool. And Thank *You*.
Bet you’ll vote next time, Hippy. Er, Wingnut. Oh wait, y’all probably did. I guess stuff happens in a representative Democracy. See you in 2012. Go Palin!
Heheheeehehehaaahaaa.
With over 40% of the population not paying a dime of federal income tax, why would voters in this segment vote for candidates promoting a fair tax structure? Why would they vote for anything that promotes individual responsibility?
Considering BO’s plan to bring another 12-20 million illegals into the non-paying voter ranks, all the tea in China will not help us gain control of this obese pig.
The class warfare will divide us until the tax burden is equally felt at all levels.