Animal Shelter Report
Susan Overfield has a piece about a report on Animal Shelter activities prepared recently. Susan states:
Kim Staton, issued a report developed July 23-27, 2007. The City had it. The Animal Foundation had it (though it only recently popped up on their site under links), but both refused to relinquish a copy to the Humane Society of Cascade County, despite numerous requests over several months, until just a few days ago. This time frame would have been just prior to Christmas, but post the Press Conference by Amy Lowe & Jason Dern. This might be a case of too little, too late if both City and Foundation are trying to make themselves look good.
I asked Bob James about this. As you will recall, Bob is a trustee of the Animal Foundation. He said:
Ms. O’s statement, “[Foundation] refused to relinquish a copy to the Humane Society of Cascade County, despite numerous requests over several months, until just a few days ago” is untrue. The HSCC never asked us for a copy of the Staton report. As I recall, I obtained it by calling the City Clerk’s office and obtaining a copy–it’s a matter of public record. We put it on our website (www.theanimalfoundation.org) because we thought people might be interested in reading it. It’s that simple.
The City was asked by the HSCC on numerous occasions for a copy of the report. It was never relinquished. I am amazed at the coincidence of it suddenly being available.
But, it is coincidences such as these that will be address at the Town Hall meeting on Jan. 5th.
The Foundation isn’t the city. We have no knowledge when the HSCC requested a copy of the Staton Report. The HSCC did not, as stated by Ms. Overfield, request one from us. It has been available for months so there is no “coincidence.”
Is her blogging of false information right before HER town meeting simply a coincidence?
Her town meeting??? Last I heard it was a PUBLIC town meeting. Hope to see you there so you can clarify your position Mr. James.
Dear Bandit (ah, is this Pam Hendrickson, former member of the HSCC who is one of the paid sponsors of the town meeting?): what would you like me “to clarify” and why don’t you identify yourself instead of using a fake name? I would be glad to answer your questions—what are they?
Amazing how much finger pointing and acqusations are flying around this city on the Animal Shelter situation. To me it looks like a bunch of bad blood between those who supported the past company that operated the animal shelter and those who now operate the shelter. Now do not get me wrong I am no big fan of some of the folks in our city government, but they were elected to the positions fairly.
Here is a suggestion, instead of bashing each other, one side give their points and the other side gives their without the acqusations. I am finding in my own research that there are falsehoods runnign all around.
For example: in some forum posts on this subject at the Tribune forums, one would start to believe that the $400K that was bequested would have been bequested to the animal shelter (current one in operation); now at the Animal Foundations web site they state that the $400K was bequested to the foundation to build a new shelter. Then if you go back a little more “her bequest of $400,000 to the Animal Foundation” (Great Falls Tribune, Aug 3 2004).
I will not yet judge if there was wrongdoing at the shelter, if there was, then let those who are guilt be judged and punished. All agencies involved claim to care about the animals, this I do not doubt, but please start acting like you care, get the information out to the public and quit with all the acqusations. We do not need them.
Mr. James, I don’t know the identity of “Bandit”, nor do I care. However, you VERY wrong to state that Ms. Hendrickson is a PAID sponsor.
The truth: the people sponsoring the Town Hall meeting, Jan 5th @ 7 p.m. @ University of GF Theatre Bldg., are actually PAYING OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS to OFFER the public an opportunity to participate in solving the Animal Shelter Crisis.
Mjefferson01 finds it “Amazing how much finger pointing and acqusations are flying around this city on the Animal Shelter situation.”
Do you also find it amazing how much finger pointing and acqusations are flying around this city on the Coal Plant/Water/Ambulance Service situations?
My god people, did someone just say “acqusations?”
Actually, no. Two people said “acqusations.”
Yes GeeGuy and Anon,
I did state “acqusations” I use this word because I do not have hard evidence or first hand knowledge of the issues at hand. I am not happy about some of the things that our government officials have done (I see the coal plant as a big waste of public tax money). The issue with water rights on the Missouri is not a good deal too. I have learned in my 43 years on the planet, mainly through the type of careers that I have had and my higher education in Management/Employment Law that at times things are not as they appear and to be very critical and analytical of the information that I analyze. I have seen some of the documents and emails in the animal shelter, I came away with more questions than answers. I did not see any hard documentation that the issues at hand have occured. Now that could mean many things; maybe I did not get to view the documents that do prove these acqusitions, maybe I was not interpreting the documents properly, maybe some of the documents could have been interpreted both ways. For example: There was a statemet that the police officer was used to paint an office, now I do not know anything about the daily operations of the police department, so this could have been wrong, or there was nothing else to do and I as a tax payer would rather pay the person to help improve city property (our property) than pay him or her to just sit on their behind all day.
Some folks have even said that the Animal Foundation should give or return the $400K to the animal shelter, some have made it sound as if the Animal Foundation just took the money, but everything I have read points that the $400K was bequested to the Animals Foundation, even the Tribune has an article stating this (Aug 3, 2004) and if the money was not bequested to the Animal Foundation why has the executor of the will not filed in court to have the money put where the deceased willed it to be put? My conclusion; the money is where it should be, the Animal Foundation has the rights to the money.
Sorry if my view does not agree with yours, but I must make my own decisions on this situation even if I am not the biggest fan of alot of these folks in our government.
I was actually teasing about the horrible spelling.
GeeGuy- How can you coldly make jokes about spelling when there are pigeons and squirrels not receiving proper veterinary care at the shelter? How can you sleep at night knowing somewhere in this town a pigeon is going hungry?
How can anyone take theses “acqusations” serious when they are intermixed with nutty claims like improper pigeon care. Maybe we are supposed to take them serious based on the argument that even a broken clock is right twice a day. Maybe the two complaining animal control officers that claim the euthanasia procedures were animal cruelty but participated anyway should be charged with animal cruelty. They’ve already admitted that they knew what they were doing was wrong.
Hmmmmm…. wolfpack, a life is a life here. Is yours any less significant than say that of somebody with a high profile? How about a homeless person compared to a rich person? A life is a life!!!!! A dog or cat or bird or squirrel…all deserve to die humanely. Would you take your animal out and bash it in the head or let it die a slow death? You know those who start as animal abusers usually move on to people and the prisons are full of them…something to think about, they are called sociopaths. Please come to the meeting and express your unique thoughts and the solutions you would reccommend.
Thought that did not look right; might want to check your spell check program. I use it every time because I know I am not the worlds greatest speller; never claimed to be an English major. But from reading other posts I am not alone. “theses” Looks like someone else who posts and makes fun of spelling should check their own before sounding off. What you say Wolfpack? Yah I know you used the check spelling program here too.
Society is best judged on how the the weakest of creatures are treated. But what the heck, all those happy home-life family dogs will soon have their new play park. I’m sure those homeless strays and condemned to death shelter dogs will jump with joy over the humanity and compassion of it all.
Talk about screwed up priorities, but it fits in with everything else happening here.
Bandit, as much as I enjoy your posts, this is one of those statements that sounds good, but is actually meaningless: “Society is best judged on how the the weakest of creatures are treated.”
Assuming, arguendo, that cats and dogs are the “weakest of creatures,” then by your stated standard the most successful society, or at least that one that should be judged most highly, is one that takes cats and dogs and elevates them to a position of royalty and exalts them above all others. A society where animals, or at least ‘weak’ animals, reign by default. That is, frankly, a sort of silly notion.
Removing that statement, though, you make a legitimate point. If your implied premise of dire need is true, then a come lately triage mentality is a better fit for our current situation. In other words, to quote my old friend Floyd, “you can’t have any pudding if you don’t eat your meat.”
GeeGuy, I’m not suggesting that we elevate them to royalty. Domestic animals are result of man’s interference in the natural process. We have created these domestic pets for our own joy and are fully responsible for their care.
ACO411- I don’t get at all how you can compare humane lives to animal lives. I also don’t think the city has any responsibility for veterinary care for wild animals. If an animal is suffering, a rock to the head is more humane than waiting for a vet to use drugs. Again, I have great suspicion over the motives of the two trained animal control officers who participated in numerous self-described torturings, yet shoulder no blame for their own actions. They say they knew better but did it any way because their employer told them to. Would they have stole, raped or murdered also if directed to by they city? I doubt it but they were OK with animal torture. This means they have no real concern for the animals or that they are lying. Also, the fact that they included bad jokes and pigeon abuse stories in their list of malfeasance makes them seem less credible and vendetta driven. It smells like part of a payback for perceived wrong doing in removing HSCC . If this were limited to the politicians it wouldn’t bother me so much but there are some working stiffs whose careers and reputations are being hurt in this witch hunt.
Mjefferson01- I wasn’t picking at your spelling (I am clearly spelling challenged to), I was attempting to pick at Geeguy’s right brained brie eating elitism.
wolfpack, if we are talking about wild animals then I believe that MT FW&P would be the jurisdiction to make the call. What say they?
wolfpack…you are soooo clueless and obviously not informed on the issues so you are definitely invited to bring your one-sided, uneducated self to the meeting and please do tell what your solutions are. It was a nice try for a deflect though, you must be trophy hunter kind. It is the responsibility that animals do not suffer and you are stuck on pigeons and squirrels, maybe focus on the animals to suffer in the future. BTW again this has nothing to do with HSCC, perhaps you should pick another forum with a topic you know about.
I think you just made Wolfpack’s point, ACO.
Wolfpack,
you should have picked on the spelling; the q should be a c, and they are a long way from each other on the key board. Whereas e and s are right next to each other. At least you have a good excuse, myself on the other hand have no excuse except I am a bad speller. Have a good weekend, it was all good clean fun, same to you GeeGuy, have a great weekend.
ACO411,
First off do not get the wrong impression, I think what you and others are doing; standing up for what you believe in is admirable. But you need to stop with the personal attacks when people do not fully see things your way. Your posted reply to wolfpack did you more harm than good. I live in Montana, I hunt. Am I now to assume because I am a hunter from you remarks above that I am probably not welcome within your circle. How exactly is wolfpack clueless and uneducated? You see, attacks like this against people who question your motives or do not fully agree with you or your actions need to be done in a more professional manor. I have been looking at all the documents that have been supplied or that I have been able to look at (see post above dated 4 Jan), researching statements made by people to try and find the truth. I am still a little undecided and thought that tonights meeting would be a good thing to attend even though I have to get ready to get on a plane in the morning. However, your last post just caused me to rethink your motives and my possible involvement in this situation. Concerning the debate on Animal vs Human life. I will be straight forward as I believe in honesty; if it is between who lives the animal or the human, the animal will be gone real quick as I value human life more than I value an animals life, yes I will try to be as humain as possible to the animal. This is the way that I am and that I believe, does it make me a bad person who deserves to be beratted by you now that you know this about me?
mjefferson…a trophy hunter is a whole different thing than a hunter who hunts to eat meat. I have lived in Montana my whole life and raised on deer meat and today if you look in my freezer that is what you will find along with antelope so do not get the two mixed up. What would you guess my motives are for risking everything in my life including my friends, my family, my job, my home, etc. Lets see nothing to gain here personally other than all the people standing up and seeing for themselves what is the wrong being done to the animals that are most the time forgotten about. I see those animals every single day and I know what I know. I am so sorry if you take it personal the fact that I believe wolfpack is uneducated and one-sided…at this point that is how I see it. Perhaps when he/she sees the documents and hears the whole thing and decides that this is all ridiculous then it will just be an opinion but right now it is an uneducated and one-sided opinion. I certainly hope people will come looking for solutions rather than mudslinging, those documents that you wanted will still be available tonight so you can then decide for yourself and listen to others who have seen what I am describing.
ACO411,
I did not take it personal; I was trying to point out to you that what you are doing is a good thing. But, with all the scrutany going around and the possibility of the city attempting to make you look like a villan or something, you need to be carefull with how you respond to others. As GeeGuy also pointed out your responce to wolfpack did you no good and only furthered his argument, even if you are personally attacked do no resort to the same.
Yes I do know the difference between trophy hunting and hunting for food, I myself am not a big fan of trophy hunters, although I must admit if I have no meat yet and the state record Buck is in my sights, well I will have meat and a state record. I am feverishly packing my bags and checking my list and hoping to make the meeting. But my first priority is to depart for a class in Advanced Contract Law.
If I am unable to make it; keep your head held high but be ready for the possibility when the report is done for the city to try and discredit you and others. Do not fall for their tricks keep yourself on a higher professional plain than the city is. From what I have heard from talking to people about this situation you have alot of people in this town who support you and are admired at what you and the others are doing. I will have my laptop with me so I will be able to keep tabs on this. I am very interested in the city’s report.
ACO411- Now I get your position. You are one of the animal control officers who was assisting in the torture . No wonder you took offense to what I said. Sorry that’s how I feel. Your right, I know little about the situation other than your own words. As for me being uneducated, that’s just a vicious rumor started by close friends.
ACO makes it abundantly clear why I chose to skip the Town Hall Meeting. Contrary opinions are not welcomed; instead those offering a differing opinion are attacked (clueless, uneducated). I can’t blame stakeholders if they chose to skip it either. In my opinion, they were facing an ambush, not a discussion. It’s fine to have strong opinions, but a one way conversation is a diatribe not a dialogue.
By the way, ACO, why don’t you scan your documents and put them online? I’ll certainly give you the space here if you want it.
And Jefferson, I am sorry about teasing you about the spelling. I have had one heckuva time getting a spell-checker to work here.
Oh no problem GeeGuy, actually I am one of those types of people that if you did not tease me I would think you did not like me. I know it was in good fun and ran with it.
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\All e-mails pertaining to this matter.doc
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\ANIMALS PUT TO SLEEP BEFORE STRAY TIME WAS UP.doc
this document also included 11 impound sheets that proves the animals were put to sleep before legal and if you want copies of those you can get them at the printers Licini’s
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\bird statement.doc
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\cruelty press release.rtf
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\cruelty amys speech.doc
this is what the press heard at my press conference
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\DOCUMENTS OF IMPORTANCE.doc
this document is called D and d-1 is not scanned however is at the printers
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\D-2.pdf
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\D-3.pdf
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\EXPLANATION OF PHOTOS ENCLOSED.doc
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\shelter2.jpg
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\shelter3.jpg
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\Gdoc pg 1.pdf
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\g doc pg2.pdf
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\G doc pg3.pdf
these last 3 docs are things kim staton wanted done to the shelter that they say are 79% done or in the process
C:\Documents and Settings\HP Authorized Custom\My Documents\new doc.doc
documents H and I are at the printers and I do not have time to put them on line today so you are welcome to pick those up at licinis. The Kim Staton report you can get off the animal foundations site just go there and click on links.
Your opinion would have been just as welcomed but I think the information would have blown your hair back. It was not designed nor intended to be an amush on anyone but to find solutions for animals. Have a great day!!!!!!!!!!!
ACO, those links you referenced are to your c: drive. Obviously, we cannot get on that.
Do you have URL’s?
I thought all those documents were supposed to be handed out last night. I must have missed that part. Anyone else get them?
Someone one else jump in, but I recall the documents are to be available from Licini’s Print Shop at a fee to cover the cost of reproduction.
Yes, that’s where they are. There was a single set of copies available to look at last night and it was announced three separate times that if you wanted a set you could get one at Licini’s for a small copy cost.
One copy available for a hundred people? It must have been awkward to speak educatedly with no data available before or during the discussion. Unless informed participation was not a priority or even desired. But at least we know the hard drive path to look in for the “facts” if we ever get possession of ACO’s computer. Pay for the room but not for a few copies to give the meeting purpose. You anti-Animal Foundation guys kill me.
Wolfpack, I’m certain if you’d been there you would have gathered the information from the discussion. Especially since everything I cited was a copy from either City or Tribune sources. I suggest, since you were incapable of showing up due to predetermined prejudices, you remain sitting smugly on your educated keyboard.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but does not the city charge a fee to obtain copies of our public records? They have all the money to toss around.
No wonder the city administration never speaks educatedly at public meetings. They don’t have copies of the specifics for everyone.
Hat tip to Wolfpack.
Susan, with all due respect, I can show you numerous posts that state come to the meeting, we will give you proof. I did not have time to sit through the entire meeting. Your words are not proof. I went to see the documents. They were not there.
I do not believe everything I read on blogs and on the Tribune site. I do not believe everything everyone says.
Until and unless you have hard evidence to back up what you say, it is nothing but that – what you say. You said those documents would be there, and they were not.
If people had to pick up their own copies, don’t you think that would have been a good thing to mention before the meeting, not during it?
firefly, the city seized operation of the shelter on Lawton’s claim of a growing mound of complaints. Not one piece of paper was every provided to the public, even though Lawton said the information was forthcoming. We are I guess expected to take them at their word. However, the documents charging the city of abuse are available and Licini’s printing has them.
I don’t expect a private citizen blowing the whistle on government to fund your education. All that is asked is you pay for the copies if you want your own set. I suppose since ACO411 attempted to post document links, someone could offer to help get these up on a blog in electronic format. Susan?
ACO411, a free pdf creator is found at: http://www.primopdf.com
Actually, Bandit, I thought the City did come forward with their complaints. I don’t know that I recall a “mound,” but I am pretty sure there were some.
firefly: I’m sure you will understand that I was NOT the person blogging that the docs would be there for all. I believe that Amy posted that information, but when faced with the personal cost, announced that evening that she’d made arrangements with the copy shop to have people pay for them. I wasn’t apprised of any of this until she made the public announcement at the meeting. However, I’m glad to see GGuy has finally gotten her files and they are up. I appreciate your civility in this. Thank you.
GeeGuy, do you a link to the city posting of complaints? I’d be happy with even some.
Bandit- If you want documentation of shelter problems under HSCC stewardship look no further than the report by Kim Staton. The report covers a period in July 2007 after a month of city control which means that most problems were holdovers from the good old HSCC days. Where were the watch dogs in days of yore? Is all this attention to animal concerns just a new fad or just residual hurt feelings from HSCC supporters. At the end of the day the PR debacle created by this will negatively affect both the HSCC and the Animal Foundation. People on the sidelines like me will not contribute to fund a dysfunctional animal support community. There are plenty of other charities competing for our support.
wolfpack,
I’m not talking about the post seizure consultant report so stop spinning. What is of interest are the documents the city based it’s takeover on in the first place. You know, the ones Lawton talked about in the commission meeting when he said he had a stack and they would be released.
Those would be the same complaints the city collected during the HSCC’s contract performance term under city oversight. I want to know the specifics and how long these alleged complaints were known to the city and why the city allowed the co-called deficiencies to continue on their watch – before the seizure.
“dysfunctional animal support community” I find this insulting to those in the public that really care for the animals and put their time and money on the line. It’s not the community that is at fault and it’s no longer about HSCC. It’s the city leadership and lack there of. They have it now. Painting the front office and building a new dog park. Yeah, they care.
You are correct on one point. Not another dime to the Animal Foundation.
Bandit, I have not seen any actual documents. This issue is not in the forefront for me, so I haven’t chased them down. The complaints were referenced in a Tribune article, and the impression that remains with me is that the reporter saw the written complaints. If you want to go to the City and get them, I will be happy to scan them and post them for you.
I don’t think you should be offended by Wolfpack’s term, either. I think you should accept it as the perception of citizens who are not very close to the issue, which, I would suggest, is probably the vast majority of citizens in our community. Frankly, I can see why a casual observer would adopt such a perception. Without deeper inquiry, it certainly seems as though we have two opposing groups doing a whole lot of squabbling while both proclaiming their committment to higher ideals.
I have tried to keep up on all of this through the last few weeks and am as disappointed as a lot of others. Before all of this was made public, I asked for the documentation. I gave out my email address to have them sent. I did not receive them. Ok I thought, I will hold on. I was then told that the documentation would be on the yahoo groups website for aco411. I went to the site and have not yet been given access to view the documentation and was sent an email as to the effect that if I wasnt a staunch aco411 supporter I would not be granted access. Now Im not saying that I support aco411 or not….I dont have the facts and the one thing that I have ALWAYS done is get the facts to make a decision of my own.
I was going to go to the “town hall meeting”. I could not bring myself to though as in my own opinion it was not going to be a meeting without both sides to be represented. It (in my opinion) would be a bickering fest for oposers to the city run shelter. Not my idea of a good time to be had by all. In my opinion it would only raise more questions than answers, so I opted not to go. Crucify me if you wish. I know that I am not alone in wanting to see some of the documentation. I also wish to see that the documentation is true documentation and not one persons interpretation of things that happened.
It is thought that just because a person didnt show up for the meeting that they are disinterested. On the contrary…If we want to hear and see bickering, we can just log onto our computers and see it. I will now wait until the city report is done and get the facts from it. I dont think that the city would have ulterior motives to cover up wrong doing if it is indeed wrong doing.
Someone once told me…a very respected Police Chief in the state of Montana…”if you think it is hard to be in law enforcement…just try to take away someones abused animal…”
When can the “witch hunt” end, fingers stop being pointed and the actual care of animals and people be resumed?
FYI, early in this thread there were a couple comments (Bandit, Wolfpack)regarding “wild animals”.
City Code Title 6 (I am assuming everyone is capable of locating that)
“Animal” means any living vertebrate creature, other than human beings, whether wild or domestic including but not limited to all livestock and any domestic pet.
Title 6 also list the duties of Animal Control Officers, which might help with the documentation issue, if someone more interested than GeeGuy is dedicated enough to pursue revealing public records.
And Bandit, I did get my own set of copies, once I knew where they were. And since I had them, I got them to Gee so he could post them. (Since he offered, and I felt other people might want to read them) Course, he is a private citizen, blowing the whistle on government, who has been personally funding our education for quite some time. (And just did again.) But let’s not quibble. After all, this is about the animals.
GeeGuy,
I hope that Mr. Schwanke’s letter to the editor of January 14, 2008 clears up any concerns regarding the Maclean gift to the Animal Foundation:
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
On our minds: Animals, BNSF’s rights
Setting the record straight
I want to set the record straight regarding the $400,000 that, as personal representative of Margaret Maclean’s estate, I determined should be given to the Animal Foundation to carry out her wishes to help animals in north central Montana.
I spent considerable time researching the possible ways I could fulfill her wishes.
Although the Humane Society of Cascade County (HSCC) made a proposal, I did not find it satisfactory as the HSCC was advised.
I later determined to award $400,000 to the Animal Foundation believing its project, as outlined in its very thorough proposal and elaborated upon by certain of its trustees, would be a project Margaret would have wanted to support. Through hard work, dedication and determination, the Foundation raised the matching funds that were required, and the estate in turn has paid the Foundation the $400,000 as promised.
The finished product, a facility well-planned, thought out, and named in her honor will be a fitting tribute to Margaret and her love of animals. Margaret would be both happy and proud to have been a part of this, and it is personally rewarding to me having known her for many years.
— K. Dale Schwanke, Great Falls
The Schwanke letter should help sooth the hurt HSCC ego’s and help put an end to all the rancor. It’s all about the animals!
I needed to thank you for this excellent blog post. I seriously appeciate it.