Who am I?
The issue of anonymity on the web has raised its head again. A local blogger and all-around great guy, David from GreaterFalls, was ‘called out‘ below by Larry Kralj, a local high school teacher. David responded here.
It seems that somewhere along the line David suggested that Larry Kralj also posts as one “RedNeck Hippie” on the Great Falls Tribune Forums. (Sigh. I know, I know…) I must admit that I operated under the same assumption; the writing styles were quite similar as were the subjects chosen.
Kralj denies he is RNH…sort of. Frankly, I don’t care if he is or isn’t. If he says he isn’t, I will take him at his word. My problem, though, is this: If he is RNH, then, as the English might say, it is ”not cricket” for him to attack David for reaching a conclusion that appears fairly obvious, simply because David lacks evidence.
This little dispute, though, raises an important point. You are not anonymous. This is especially true for you jokers at the Tribune Forums who can’t seem to discuss anything without calling people names and attacking each other. If you attack me in a defamatory way, I’ll file a lawsuit. I will discover your identity through the legal process. There’s no website poster privilege.
Speaking of jokers at the Tribune website, we have Holy Hal, who some now claim is a certain Gloria Lamott. Ms. Lamott is purported to be a good friend of Mayor Dona Stebbins. I cannot prove that to be true, but I do know they have worked closely together on a pet project (pun intended).
If Gloria Lamott is, in fact, the poster known as Holy Hal, it means that Mayor Stebbins’ best defender on the Tribune Forums is probably also her friend. (They even used the same language to describe the animal shelter issue.) How interesting it would be, then, if Mayor Stebbins were knowingly feeding information to an anonymous website poster. For you see, Mayor Stebbins has a long-time, stated aversion to anonymity: “As you may know, I am not a fan of anonymity. I just posted my phone and email. If you have a question, contact me. Own your words.”
You are not anonymous.
Oh for cryin’ out loud, Gee Guy. What little davey did was take offense at some RNH posts, and instead of trying to respond in an intelligent manner, he continued the little game of trying to out someone, and hence, affect their job! Let’s be real here, shall we? Davey boy is retired AF. He is NOT dependent on a job. He’s sucked on the govt. titty for twenty years, and now he’s suckin’ on the govt. retirement titty. I STILL WORK! And I get DAMN TIRED of anonymouse pukes sending e-mails, letters, etc. to my prinicipal, the shool board, and even the diocese! ( all anonymouse of course!) And THAT’S why davey, AF retired titty sucker, feels free to do what he does! He can’t argue, so he attacks the source! He had NO proof who RNH was, and yet he felt compelled to attempt out him! That’s not low class, that NO class! If people want to be anonymous, LET’EM! I mean, who really cares? The REAL bad guys are the anonymouse pukes who send the letters, and those that attempt to out people! I don’t care who holy hal is. Why should I? I’m more interested in the give and take of free speech than destroying someone’s personal life. What dave did is wrong. And I think he knows that. When I first read his blog, I loved it. He shunned controversy, and was very upbeat. He looked for the good in our community. But when he decided to enter the fray by persoanally attacking people he disagrees with, he really demeaned himself in my book. By calling me “Larry Kralj, eco nut”, and sending it all OVER the web, he has shown himself to be a tiny little man. And that’s sad. Why did he do it? I dunno? I never attacked him personally. Apparently because I fight for the things I believe in, and things which MOST people in GF agree with, davey feels comfortable attacking me. Sad, so sad. I expected better of him. He is NOT the welcome addition to GF that I thought he was. And if Holy Hal is indeed Gloria Lamott, I don’t care on whit! Hal is simply expressing their opinion! How bout we don’t attempt to destroy people’s lives and just allow some vigorous debate! The tiny ones will continue to roar, but the Hals and RNHs will continue to get immediately to the core of the arguments. Life is good.
p.s. And besides, anonymity is kinda like them WAY too small hospital gowns they make you wear when you go in for an x-ray or something. They provide only the most basic of coverage, yet most casual observers don’t attempt to see what’s underneath out of common courtesy. Only a pervert will come along from behind and flip it up! THAT’S what outters do.
p.s.s. when will wolfpack come out so we can all see who he is?
Moring everyone.
As I sit here drinking my coffee, and reading this and other comments, there is a call to the question here, juts out of curiousity if nothing else.
As I was going down the blog there was the site posted for webposters privledges.
I went to it and in looking it over I wasn’t seeing anyhting that was relative to the subject of anomity for web posters and legal recourse. Are you sure yoy have it right, or is there another site which remedies my question.
Maybe I’m wrong here, but I seem to recall that there’s a FCC ruling on this question of anomity. If that’s true then I would believe that would supercede and local MCA. I also recall that there would be obviously heavy penalities with the FCC rulings on the subject. Care to expound on this?
Thanks. And if I haven’t said before to you folks, Merry Christmas and a happy and properous New Years!
sorry about the typos.. not enough coffee I guess.
BigC, I can’t tell what you mean. You think there is an FCC rule protecting anonymity for online commenters?
“You are not anonymous.” Could be with connections to the NSA you would uncover those deftly intent on hiding. There are several ways to hide your IP address and stop leaving those digital breadcrumbs. Anonymous proxy servers operate out of Iran, Africa, Asia, etc. for those wishing to do so. Your ISP will list the hosting server you visited, but from there its off into virtual hinterland with a brand new IP address. Worried about your ISP logging your activity? Plenty of unsecured Wifi access points to jump in from. If simply taking pot shots on blogs you could remain a ghost. If you start running major Nigerian 419 scams or ripping off banks your days would become numbered as soon as you collect the first $.
P.S. Good luck getting the Iranians turn over any records.
My response to Larry is right here.
What a sad state this has become. Its high school on line! LOL
Yes and no.
It works both ways I think. Unless there is due course for seeking an anonymous
poster, and a federal viloation ahs occured such profanity, the anomity of the poster will be secured..
Like I said, I could be reaching for something that maybe doesn’t exist.
the reason why I stated it was because the entire process by using the “air waves” i.e. internet, b/band, dialup, etc. (<– lazy way of saying I dunno) of all of the other technology, that there would be federal jurisdiction.
has occured such as profanity or slander. <—-(correction here).
… need more coffee??? hmm..
.. better start using the spell checker I guess.
I tried looking for it at http://www.fcc.gov but maybe I was looking with the wrong hit word.. came up with nothing. Any help on this would be appreciated.
Thanks.
I personaaly do not believe a person should be anominus in posting on the web. My view is it creates an avenue for people to be slanderous towards others. I do agree that people should be free to express their beliefs or point of view on subjects, but they should be able to do this without fear or retribution. This whole thing between Dave and Larry is getting a bit out of hand. I will agree with Larry thought that whoever sent letters or any other such notices to his employer, well that was completely wrong. Larry, I as an individual who served 21 years in the military protecting yours and everyone elses freedom to express yourself take it very personal when individuals make comments like “sucking of the govt tit” But then again I did protect your freedum to say such things. I too receive a retirement check at the first of every month, but believe me I still have to work for a living. You can not live comfortably on a retirement check from military service. As for the matter with RNH, I personal do not care who he or she is, while I do not agree with the personal attacks he or she does online, whoever RNH is does bring light to some issues being discussed and he or she does make you think.
Funny- Kralj/RNH says that people who look underneath the gown of anonymity are perverts then asks to look underneath my gown. What a nut! Sorry, I mean Eco-Nut.
Just to clear “the law” thing up a little for you all
If it’s “illegal” in the real world, it is also “illegal” in the cyber one.
Privacy rules take a back seat to the law, online or off.
If my server admin were served a subpoena tomorrow, it would be “against the law” to not comply.
If for some reason, action or suit were filed, against any one of our clients, then we would be obligated, “under the law” to turn over any or all of the documentation that was requested in the suit. This includes, but is definitely “not limited to”, server logs, web pages, email logs, databases and the list continues, about as long as my arm.
If liable were the issue, then the server admin over at the Tribune, by law, upon after being served, would have to turn over the information requested.
If GeeGuy gets it in his head to sue… well, under the law, he can.
As an added note;
Rules are posted for a good reason.
Even my Company A.U.P. spells them out as they relate to the business.
And if you don’t think that the Tribune server admins or their ISP/Datacenter can’t be named in the same suit, well, think again, because they can.
We can always hide from each other through the use of silly names on the net, but the law, does a really good job of looking beyond the silly names should the situation ever call for it.
I’ll comment as I did the “outing”.
Many people use the name on their email for blogging. Many people just like a moniker. Nothing wrong with that. Some are amusing.
I’ll tolerate name calling up to a point. If one is going to put their opinions out in the world, they should expect some disagreement. If one puts truth out, they will encounter resistance.
But, when an “alias” is used much in the same manner as a white sheet – to injure, to incite hatred, to attack another person – in my book it’s unacceptable.
I’m not a great proponent of those, like Holy Hal, who hide under the “white sheet” of the blogger name to attack a person or do intentional harm. I don’t care what the thread count.
Rabbi Dr. Asher Meir provides the Torah observant Jewish view of anonymous blogs and making irresponsible and unsubstantiated statements about real people:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/jewish/ethicist_anonymous.php3
Rabbi Dr. Asher Meir, formerly of the Council of Economic Advisers in the Reagan administration, is Research Director of the Business Ethics Center of Jerusalem, Jerusalem College of Technology.
Thanks Dave. That gives a better clarity on my question. Especially, if in the real world vs. the cyber.
Goes back to that old cliche’ – “when in doubt-don’t”.
“Kralj denies he is RNH…sort of. Frankly, I don’t care if he is or isn’t. If he says he isn’t, I will take him at his word. ”
That’s just it. He hasn’t denied or admitted anything. Either say “I am not RNH.” or “I am RNH.” Simple. Easy. Both have stated in so many words, they tell it like it is. Honesty seems to be important to them. Well then, tell it like it is instead of being evasive. Quite frankly, whether Larry is or isn’t RNH makes no difference to me. I’m tired of reading about either one of them. Let’s move on.
Mtjefferson, I guess that I’m just mad at myself ’cause I didn’t have the foresight to stay in for twenty. I definitely could’a used a retirement check myself. I was in only for four years, including one year in Vietnam, and I hated the military, mostly because they sent me to every lousy hell hole the military has. I couldn’t STAND living in those places. So I got out. But the big problem I have with dave is that he was the very FIRST guy with his own blog to refer to RNH as me. That gave a huge amount of amunition to the guessers out there who are out to destroy me personally. And I find that despicable. For you see, I assume that you served in our military all those years that you did because you actually BELIEVE what our great country stands for. And I, too, greatly value what our country stands for. And one of the absolutely most important things our Constitutions guarantees is free speech. When someone attempts to silence another through intimidation, that just ain’t right. And that ain’t what America is all about. Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t fear tiny little people, and I will NEVER hesitate to say what I feel needs to be said. Nope, can’t do’er! For you see, you fought to protect our country, and I fight to protect what our country is all about. You didn’t run from an enemy, and I don’t run from people trying to silence me. You fought to protect free speech, I exercise free speech you fought for. You fought out of love of country, and I continually fight every day for love of country. You see, Mtj, we’re really not that different, ‘cept that duty still calls me. I never stood down. You’re retired, and I’m not. It’s that simple.
Semper Veritas
And p.s. to what Lizzie said. ME TOO! I’m TIRED of people attempting to get me fired for expressing a frigging opinion! I’m TIRED of discussing people, and who is and who isn’t whom! I’m TIRED of people becoming more important than isues! Let’s get on to the issues! Issues are issues, and people are NOT issues! (insert Chalie Brown quote here) Good grief! Do these little anonymice REALLY think that if I were to get fired I’d stop expressing opinions? Hmm. They don’t know me too well!
Larry – Whoa there pardner. Where did I say “I’m TIRED of people attempting to get me fired for expressing a frigging opinion!” Not so sir. What the heck are you talking about?
Evasive, Evasive, Evasive. Go back and read, read, read, the post again. Either you are or not. I’m done.
Larry,
You say, “Issues are issues, and people are NOT issues!” but some of us are confused when you disrespectfully call Dave “…davey,” and then attack him as an “AF retired titty sucker.”
You, “…hated the military” but are “more interested in the give and take of free speech than destroying someone’s personal life”?
It’s really confusing how you define or determine people are NOT issues vs. issues.
Merry Christmas -
Anon
Anon, are you actually saying that career military folks are NOT G.I. issue titty suckers? Oh come on. They surely ARE govt. titty suckers, as are ALL govt. employees! Heck, EVERYBODY wants to suck on Uncle Sam’s big ol’ mammaries! Maybe he should change his name from Uncle Sammy to Uncle Mammary! Heck, I know. I’ve been there. I’ve actually WORKED some govt. jobs. And it was full-time sucking! Need an example? OK, here’s one teensy, tiny example. The Post Office back east somewhere puts out a notice that they’re hiring maybe five positions. Well, nearly TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE SHOW UP TO APPLY! Why? Ask yourself why? Easy answer. ‘Cause there’s nuthin’ sweeter than uncle sugar milk! It’s guaran-frickin’-teed! Hell, I woud go to work tomorrow for the P.O. tomorrow if I could get on, and I’d suck real hard right up to the day of retirement! I mean, what OTHER job pays bout thirty grand a year plus big benies for sellin’ stamps from a window?! Yesiree b0b. Govt. titty milk is the absolute best job a poor boy could ever dream of getting. It’s the American dream.
Wow, Some of you take this blogging too seriously! When you start talking about “outing people, sueing for slander and getting people fired for opinions… What the hell? You might as well tune into the Jerry Springer show for your evening, up-to-the-minute, world news report.