Voter Challenges
By now, you all know about the GOP vote challenges. While I may not have chosen to do it for PR reasons, I don’t really see anything wrong with it, overblown rhetoric notwithstanding.
Of course, deciding to do it, and then backing off in the face of the firestorm, well, that makes you look even worse.
I can’t understand how a political party challenging a voter according to the laws governing voting is disenfranchising. In other words, if the law provides a right to submit a challenge, how does one attack someone who takes advantage of that provision? If the challenge is upheld, the challenger is vindicated under the law. If the challenge is not well-taken, the challenge is dismissed.
What? We need to ignore state law because some people don’t like it?
Y0u see a lot of voter fraud in Montana do justify a technique designed to supress the vote in Democratic areas, do ya? Funny, no one else does escept jake eatone. For a party that is endlessly ranting bout freedom, freedom, the Repubbies certianly don’t take a cotton to democracy! (hey, I’m starting to sound like the vp avon lady). Seriously, though, I’m beginning to think that if there’s a way to screw up the Republican party in Montana, it’s younger, stupider members will FIND it! It’s kinda like young guys now a days who want to be cops. They watch all the cop shows on TV and think that this is how cops are supposed to act. The younger generation of Repubbies have grown up with rove and get rich, and they think that this is how they should act. But they don’t understand that this is Montana. People here don’t LIKE to be treated this way. Like it our not, we’re all still neighbors here and we know each other. I’m not sure that this jake eatone fella is even from Montana, but he doesn’t have a clue. I would suggest that the Repubbies get some cooler heads in their leadership.
My point though, Larry, is that if there is a legal process for challenging voters, why would anyone attack someone for using a process that is set forth by the law? If you oppose the notion of voter challenges, isn’t the correct choice of action to challenge the law, not those who utilize it?
It’s interesting and enlightening to see how the ACORN business is playing out in other states. “Vote early, vote often!”
Gregg, you make a very valid point. Let the chips fall where they may.
And my point is that there are a LOTTA laws that we don’t need to worry about. Look around your neighborhood. If it’s like a lot of neighborhoods, you could probably turn in your neighbors for all KINDS of violations. But we don’t because it’s just not necessary. There is no voter fraud in Montana because we are a small state and we know each other. Ever time I go to vote, I visit with the people at the pollls because I know them.
Don’t get me wrong. If the Dems had pulled this stunt, I would have been equally outraged. And for the record, I guess that I anger Dems almost as much as I anger Republicans, which makes me an independent. But there is no need to adress a problem that doesn’t exist, and causes, as it’s end result, a suppression of the vote. I blame it on youth and inexperience on the part of jake eatone. Montanas don’t LIKE them big city techniques used here.
Should only LEGALLY franchized citizens be able to vote? Y or N.
If N, stop! Let everyone, including small children make their mark. Let’s forego the fig leaf.
If Y, then what process controls should be in place to protect the legitimacy of the outcome?
That’s fairly cogent, Craig.
Larry said: And for the record, I guess that I anger Dems almost as much as I anger Republicans.
Larry, you are a master of the understatement.
It’s nice that you can hide behind legal platitudes. If you were being sincere, then your party would be doing this in all areas of the state. But you are only doing it in Democratic districts, which of course is your purpose – to suppress potential Democratic votes. Can it be any plainer?
The GOP is about election fraud and vote suppression. Your use of the law as a shield for your activities is disingenuous, to use a nice word.
No, it really isn’t, Mark T.
Now you’re saying you would have been fine with challenges, if only they had used them everywhere?
Disingenuous is ignoring the real point of the post: If people use a legal process to remove illegal voters, that isn’t suppressing any votes except illegal ones. If a voter is not legally entitled to vote, using a legal process to remove his or her name from the voting rolls is not suppressing anything that shouldn’t be suppressed. Is it your position, then, that all potential voters be allowed to vote regardless of legal qualifications?
Disingenuous because the ultimate objective is to make voting harder for these people in the hope that they simply don’t vote.
I think voter fraud is a very small problem, not big enough change the outcome of any election, even down the the precinct level. Nationally, millions of votes are flipped or disappear and whole elections are stolen. I believe Kerry won in 2004, that Max Cleland won in Georgia in 2002. But how are we to know when votes are counted in secret by private corporations using proprietary software? Do you care that our system is unauditable? In addition that that fraud, the GOP has been involved in suppression efforts, like shorting black voters in Cleveland in 2004 of voting machines, and these voter cleansing drives where people don’t know until election day taht they have been purged. At least here in Montana people were notified. How about McCain sending out millions of false absentee ballot applications to fool people into thinking they have voted when they haven’t. It’s organized and pointed and meant to suppress votes.
Be honest – say what’s true. You don’t care about the integrity of the ballot box – you only care that too many Democrats might vote.
Do I care if all potential voters be allowed to vote regardless of legal qualifications? Of course I care – it’s just not a big problem. You’re being disingenuous.
Mark T’s arguments sound eerily like what Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, Chuck Schumer et al. made against instilling proper process controls and review procedures with Frannie and Freddie. Hell of a way to run a railroad.
Probably one of the more famous futurist and progressives was the author Robert Heinlein who wrote, among many other titles, “Starship Troopers.” I must admit that the society he envisioned had an interesting approach to suffrage.
If you wanted full citizenship and the vote, you had to serve in the military.
Frankly, it makes sense. We are all dependent upon those brave souls who risk all for our freedom.
Frankly, I would forfeit my right to vote, since I have never served, if we were to set such a system up. Who better to empower our gov’t for right and responsible operation than those upon whose backs the mantle of freedom is born?
One thing is for certain, this system we have today has got to be made foolproof. I propose no absentee balloting without a medical excuse. Furthermore, thumbprints, paper trails, and a quick photograph should be embossed upon each vote cast. The results of all polling should be delayed for 30 days and all votes should be vetted.
Anyone found to be committing voter fraud loses their citizenship. PERIOD! This is a crime against our Constitution [voter fraud]. It should be treated as a voluntary renunciation of US Citizenry. Loss of other privileges and entitlements should follow.
This has to stop.
I agree mark, while it might have been a legal move anyone with half a brain can see that it was a plain and simple stunt to keep voters from voting. This blanket challenge was done by simply comparing voters mailing address and their voter registration address. And the fact that it was only a few select counties cements even further the idea of this being a political stunt to keep democrats from the ballot box. And now the fact that they recalled their challenge after some criticism is the final nail in the coffin of the political stunt belief. Seems to me that the gop is getting pretty desperate in their attempts to get elected
Anyone with half a brain.
Dave, your contributions to the level of discourse never cease to amaze. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you is stupid, huh? I think you need to come out of your anonymous closet and impress us all with your intellect and level of achievement in this lifetime. Please.
At least Mark offers an analysis beyond talking points. I can respect him. I disagree with him almost all the time, usually vehemently, but he at least brings independent thought to bear on things.
By the way, I love both of your assumptions about my motives. Wrong, but I still love to hear them.
I didn’t mean if they disagree with me they are stupid. I meant it doesn’t take someone with great intelligence to see that the Republicans are trying to keep people from voting, especially when they just happen to be Democratic counties. Are you honestly trying to say that you believe that that was just a coincidence that they picked those counties? And I don’t remember stating any assumption about your motives, only the motives of the Republican party. And I love how you resort to personal attacks just when I post something you don’t agree with.
Dave – what I believe is the Democratic machine in those areas will stoop to any level to get out the vote… for Democrats. The law allows a challenge. If you don’t like the law, go through the process and get it changed. Instead of whining about it.
When you say “anyone with half a brain can see” something, you are pretty directly implying that anyone who doesn’t see things the same way lacks “half a brain.” It’s not that hard to figure out your reasoning.
I don’t think I attacked you personally. I think that if you are going to say things like someone either a) agrees with you or b) lacks half a brain, it is fair to question your intelligence. Just to see where the accusation is coming from, so to speak. You know, to gauge your credibility in calling us stupid. If you took that as a personal attack, I sincerely apologize.
(By the way, you need to take even better steps to hide your domain. I can still ’see’ where you’re calling from.)
Think Mark and Dave were this upset when the counties of FL were selectively recounted in 2000? Even a guy with half a brain doubts it.
The Republicans stopped because they’re afraid. See McCain’s example at the top. Oh, noes, they might call us racists!!11!
(By the way, I don’t know anything about Montana–I thought Electric City was Scranton, PA.)
[...] And louder. Pretty soon all of the ‘pubbies were talking about it, and the blogs got into it (here, here, here) – here we go again – RWCJ (right wing circle [...]